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            • 1. Assess the needs
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      • Introduction
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My personal story

PrintDownload as PDF
Narrative
Country: Slovenia
Sex:
Female
Primary Topic:
HEALTH
Year:
1990, 2000

I: And you also mentioned your illness, cancer?

R: I don't know. Actually I dealt with that quite easily. Ok, now I see when looking back, that in some way it was stressful for me. But I was very optimistic. I never considered the possibility of dieing. I spoke about it a lot, because when something is bothering me I tend to speak about it. I also wear the prosthesis, but I don’t find it nothing unusual. Maybe I have been even exhibitionistic in a way. I have never hidden it, I have always worn low-cut clothes and I’ve thought to myself: “Go ahead and look!” (laughing) Because usually they hide it. (…)
(…)

I: And for example, your peers in the hospital. Did they accept their situation as you did? Can you say that your reaction to loosing a breast and prosthesis is something unusual? Is it usually something that is hidden?

R: Yes, usually, it is a stigma. Although less than in the past. While a breast is still a symbol of femininity and sexuality and besides that a cancer is an additional stigma. Also the association of death. I went through it quite well, I don’t know. I think there are a few of us that are like that. I also volunteer and I must say… It is also true that today is frequently spoken and written about it. Back then, when I was sick, you didn’t hear a lot about it, not at all. Very rarely you could hear something about it. (silence) I don’t know. Even if they actually accept it. Ok, the procedures now are also very different, it is done more elegantly. In the past it was necessary to remove the whole breast. But it is like that, cancer, right? A word that is fearful. I don’t know. I was with two women a while ago; one was 28, the other 40. And they were very frightened. And the doctor called me, if they can contact me. And than, after I spoke with them and when they got the information about the disease, their fear went away. I think that talking about it helps a lot. And back then I have spoken to myself. During my workday I went and I had mammography. Or something like that, I can’t really recall. I know I went during my workday and I found out it was cancer and I went straight back to work. (laughing) And my co-worker asks me “what was it?” And I said “cancer.” They were totally shocked. I remember one of them started to cry. And I must say I was fine. Nothing special. I was sure I will get better. That it is quite early and I will get better. (silence) So, I don’t know. And at that time I also considered breast reconstruction. A new breast from my own tissue. And the thought of that was like a psychological crutch. I see that now. For a few months. And it was also helpful for my kids. I know they kept asking me “when will you get a new breast?” But then the thought of that kept drifting away. We were nudists and we are still nudists. At that time I was covering myself up. Well, you can’t be covered up all the time. But I noticed people are accepting me in a way. They asked me “how do you feel? Are you well?” The ones we kept seeing for years. So people taught me. And also kids taught me. When we were with Scouts, I distanced myself a bit, because I experienced a shock. We camped in two groups. And the first group, I had my surgery a month earlier. And I remember I was really hurt by what happened. There were quite a few doctors in our camp and my arm was swollen and on Institute of Oncology they didn’t tell me that this is a possibility. And we were besides the (name river) and I pulled my shirt up and asked one of the female doctors “look, what is this?” “Watch out, children are present!” And I remember I was really hurt. I said “if anybody is suffering it is my own two children.” So I distanced and withdrawn myself. I bathe separately. The scar was very fresh.

I: And she thought it was scary?

R: I don’t know. Yes, I understood it like that. It is scary and they will see. It is scary, right. But my two children saw it and didn’t say it was scary or run away screaming in fear. Well, and then the other group came next week and I said I will withdrawn myself because of that experience. And they said “no, no, no, really, don’t!” And we bathe together and then children from 3 to 10 years of old came, around 8 of them. And they looked “what is this?” And I explained to them age appropriately. “I see, they did it like that!” And each of them took a look and some of them asked about it and they went away. I learned from those kids that it is in your head.

I: Kids are…

R: They have a message. And are very honest.

I: And they don’t have so much…

R: Norms, yes. So this was a lesson to me and then also the nudist beach, I mean, this camp. And so the thought of reconstruction drifted away. After a few months I realized that I am totally good the way I am. My husband never gave me any signals, that I am not a woman anymore or anything like that. I also noticed I am still as seductive as before, because I did wear prosthesis. I was interesting for men. I felt that.

I: So you needed to clear things up in your head...

R: Yes, yes, yes...

I: And accept the situation...

R: ... Yes, yes, yes. That I am still a woman. And one of the lessons also happened in that camp. There were always the same people. And there was also one woman and she said “my sister works at plastic surgery, we can go and see her about reconstruction.” Because I was really into getting reconstruction at that time. So we went across the camping site and when coming closer to her she says “isn’t it a shame to lose such a stomach!” And I thought to myself “she is strange, what is she talking about a stomach!” I did know that they take a part of your stomach, but I didn’t realize it leaves such an ugly scar. (…)
(…)

R: (…) When you are young (she was 33), everybody was telling me “yes you should have a reconstruction, you are so young.” Only my surgeon didn’t say that to me. He was an older gentleman, who retired afterwards. I am very grateful to him. He would just look at me and I would run across the street and make appointment for reconstruction. He was the only one who said “well, you will see.” He didn’t say “go!”
(…)

R: (…) People pity you a lot, because what happened to you. Everybody, I think. I saw in that camp. Afterwards I gained some self esteem. And I walked really erect. (laughing) And I saw that although they looked at me they saw me as a woman. Whole. Not like something is missing. I also dressed like that. I remember that bright colours were really helpful. I wore very bright colours. I know I had a bright yellow miniskirt, and bright blue bellybutton-shirt. (laughing) I remember this. But it was on a subconscious level. And I recall I used to go swimming in September because I needed to recreate my arm, while they removed my lymphatic glands. And I went to (name town), to (name coast), I walked very proud, wearing these high heals (laughing), full of myself. And there were these three lads, I imagined them being body guards at a disco doors. (laughing) Good lookers, right. (laughing) And one of them followed me. And I thought to myself “just wait, you will see alright!” (laughing) And I went to these rocks and he went to these other rocks. And I positioned myself in a way (laughing) that he couldn’t see anything. And I undressed myself. He sat 5 meters away and he looked at me constantly. And I was flirting with him a bit (laughing), but kept myself covered up just enough. And I had a plan: “if you are a real man, you won’t be scared by this.” But he was. This was the only such experience. I also had longer hair so everything was covered up. And I slowly started to walk into the sea. And he sees me and starts doing the same. And at the very end I lifted my arms, I don’t even know, what I did, and he sees it. (laughing) And it was not ugly at all. I already had a nice scar. But I was flat. And he jumped into the water and swam away. I thought to myself “jerk!” This was the only such message. But I must say I wasn’t hurt, I had fun. I still have fun remembering it. But otherwise I think people accept you. (…)
(…)

R: (…) For approximately two months I considered to have a reconstruction. But then there were these messages: what about the stomach, and the children: “So this was done to you.” The younger child said to me when I came home: “let me see what they have done.” I was embarrassed, should I do it or not. “So if they haven’t cut it off, you would have died?” And we never spoke about death. He was 7 yrs. So I realized when you are open about it and you talk about it people open up and come towards you.
(…)

R: My cousin’s wife had an operation a few years before me and they offered her it (reconstruction) immediately. To do it right away. And she had both surgeries at the same time. I didn’t see it, I just saw good looking bumps. And when I was getting the surgery I went to visit her and she showed it to me. And it was really beautiful. She had these heavy, strong breasts, African, very upwardly. But she didn’t show me this scar (on her stomach). Nobody talked about it, they all just look at your upper body, and how it is beautiful. She also said “yes it is very hurtful, but this comes along.” I don’t know. So I also considered having it done. “If they remove it they will make me a new one.” And also everybody was telling me “yes you must do it, of course you will do it.” Including the doctors. But it includes numerous things. It might. Not necessarily.

I: But the reconstruction is purely cosmetic?

R: Yes, entirely. Entirely cosmetic. And if there is not enough tissue they put an implant in. Artificial. An implant with physiological solution or silicone.

I: Like breast augmentation?

R: Yes, yes, yes. Well, I thing that this is for a man, who grabs you from behind and has both of his hands on them. (laughing) But how much you feel, I don’t know. First, it is very connected with pain, I think so. I think that you are in a lot of pain for quite a few months. Second, the sensibility. I don’t know if it is sensible. For example, for me it is already 14 years and some parts around the scar are still not sensible. The nerve endings are disrupted. They just don’t have to wear the prosthesis and that they don’t think it will fall out.
(…)

I: Without prosthesis you...?

R: Yes, I go out. Yes, yes. At home I don’t wear it and usually for sports. And when I take out the garbage, in an apartment building from 10th floor I usually go to the elevator without it. I don’t have (problems) with that. We also have a small house in (name town2). And I bathe beneath the church. I don’t have a problem without that.

I: But are you constantly aware “I don’t have it”?

R: No.

I: Or “they are looking at me”?

R: No, no. I think to myself “go ahead and look!” What if I wouldn’t have an arm? (…)

Slovenian

I: kaj pa, ko ste omenili vašo bolezen, rak?

R: Kaj pa vem. V bistvu jaz sem pa to preko tega kar, mislim. Dobro, saj sedaj, ko gledam nazaj, me je sigurno na nek način pretreslo. Ampak jaz sem bila zelo optimistična. Nikoli se nisem spogledovala s tem, da bom pa zaradi tega umrla. Jaz sem zelo veliko govorila in vidim, da sem tudi tako naravnana, da kadar me nekaj bremeni, o tem govorim. Jaz nosim tudi protezo, ampak meni to nič ni bilo, kaj jaz vem. Mogoče sem bila še celo malo ekshibicionistična, na nek način. Nikoli nisem skrivala, vedno sem imela neke dekolteje, sem si mislila, "kar glejte!" (smeh) Tako. Ker po navadi skrivajo. Ravno zadnjič sem se malo analizirala, kako sem jaz to šla čisto po drugi poti. Nisem skrivala in nisem bila zaradi tega prizadeta, ampak sem se v bistvu razkazovala in o tem govorila. In mi je na ta način pomagalo.

I: se pravi je bilo to, da niste skrivali, terapevtsko za vas?

R: meni zelo.

I: ali je bilo morda tudi...

R: za vse.

I: ali se je tudi ta stigma...

R: to ne vem. Jaz sem na splošno zelo odprt človek in meni o stvareh ni težko govoriti. Kaj jaz vem. Tudi zdaj, ko je bilo z (name son) tako, sem se z mnogimi pogovarjala. Ker mi je bilo to terapevtsko. Res terapevtsko. In tako kot sem zdaj, mislim, tako, bila prizadeta in res trpela zaradi (name son), recimo takrat pri sebi absolutno nisem. Tudi pod razno ne. In zdaj razumem mojo mamo, ki me je vedno tako, malo previdno vprašala, "a se dobro počutiš? A si v redu? Pa čuvaj se." Pa mi je šla vedno tako na živce, "kaj mi teži, saj sem čisto zdrava in listo v redu." Ampak mislim, da kot mama, če ti otrok zboli, pa drugače potem to doživljaš.

I: kot pri sebi?

R: kot pri sebi, ja. Vsaj jaz sem, ja. Pa tudi ostane ti en strah, kaj če se ponovi.

I: vi ste bili v bistvu, kot ste prej omenili, 33 stari?

R: ja.

I: to je zelo mlado?

R: ja, mlado. Ja, seveda, po 50. jih je največ, pa tudi po 40. Ampak mi smo imeli takrat tri toliko stare v bolnici hkrati. Ena je bila 7 mesecev noseča, ena pa. Ja, vse tri smo bile toliko stare, 32, 33. Tako da jih ni tako malo. In tudi pod 30 so stare. Zdaj je menda ena 19 let stara. Sicer to je zelo redko, ampak.

I: ni pa izključeno.

R: ne.

I: pa recimo, ste omenili vaše vrstnice v bolnišnici. A so podobno sprejemale to? Lahko rečete, da je bil vaš odziv na to, tudi reakcija na protezo in izgubo dojke, je to nekaj neobičajnega? Je sicer bolj običajno, da se skriva?

R: je bolj običaj, je stigma. Čeprav manjša, kot je bila. Ker dojka je le simbol ženskosti, seksualnosti. Pa še rak. Dodatna stigma. Tisti pridih smrti. Ja jaz tako, kot sem šla fajn takrat skozi, ne vem, no. Mislim, da nas je bolj malo tako. Ne vem. Jaz delam tudi kot prostovoljka, ampak moram reči, da... Res je, da se zdaj tudi zelo veliko govori o tem, pa zelo veliko piše. Takrat, ko sem bila jaz, pa tega ni bilo toliko slišati, sploh ne. Mislim, redko kje si kaj zasledil. (silence) Ne vem. Tudi, v bistvu, tudi če že to sprejmejo. Dobro, saj zdaj so tudi že posegi čisto drugačni, bolj elegantno lahko speljejo, ali kakor koli. Včasih je bilo treba celo dojko odstranit. Ampak je tisto, rak a ne. Beseda, ki daje strah. Kaj pa vem. Jaz sem zadnjič bila, v kratkem času, z dvema skupaj, ena 28 stara pa ena 40. Ki sta bili zelo prestrašeni. Tako da me je zdravnica poklicala, če me lahko pokličeta pa imata kontakt z mano. In potem, ko smo se pogovorile, ko sta dobili te informacije o sami bolezni, se je ta strah zelo razblinil. Z vsemi. Mislim, da ta pogovor pomaga. Jaz sem pa takrat sama klepetala. Tako, se spomnim, med službo sem letela na mamograf, ali kako je že bilo? Saj sem že pozabila. Vem, da sem med službo letela in potem sem vmes izvedela, da je rak, in sem priletela nazaj v službo. (smeh) In me tam kolegica dobi in "kaj pa je?"In sem rekla "rak." In so bile vse tako paf. Tako se spomnim, da so ji tako solze začele teči. Meni pa moram reči, da mi nič ni bilo. Tako, kaj posebnega. Jaz sem bila prepričana, da sem bom pozdravila. Da je dosti zgodaj in da se bom pozdravila. (silence) Tako da, kaj pa vem. Tudi takrat sem se zelo spogledovala, da bi mi naredili rekonstrukcijo dojke. Novo dojko, iz lastnega tkiva. In to mi je bila kot neka psihična bergla. To zdaj vidim. Par mesecev. Tudi otroka sta se s tem ven potegnila. Vem, da sta me kar naprej spraševala "kdaj boš pa novo prso dobila?" Ampak potem nekako se je pa kar odmaknilo. Mi smo bili nudisti na morju, pa smo nudisti ostali. Jaz sem sicer takrat zelo zakrivala. Mislim, skos pa tudi ne moreš biti zakrit. Ampak sem videla, da me ljudje nekako sprejemajo. Malo so me vprašali "kako se pa počutiš? A si v redu?" Tisti, s katerimi smo se leta že videvali. Tako da so me ljudje v bistvu naučili. Naučili so me otroci tudi. Ko smo bili s taborniki, jaz sem se tako, kar malo distancirala, ker sem doživela en šok od enih. V dveh skupinah smo tisto leto taborili. In prva skupina, takrat sem bila res šele en mesec po operaciji, in se tako spomnim. Takrat sem bila zelo prizadeta. Smo bili tako, zelo v zdravniški družbi teh tabornikov in meni je nekaj roka zatekala, nekaj, kar mi niso pač na onkološkem povedali, da se mi lahko zgodi. In smo bili tam ob Soči in sem potegnila majico gor in eno od teh zdravnic vprašala "daj povej, kaj pa tole imam?" "Joj, joj, pazi, otroci so tukaj!" In takrat vem, da sem bila zelo prizadeta. Sem rekla "saj če je kdo prizadet, sta moja dva." No in potem sem se zelo distancirala in sem se umikala. Tako da sem se posebej kopala. Ker je bila dosti sveža brazgotina.

I: ampak ona je v bistvu mislila, da je grozno?

R: ja kaj pa jaz vem. Ja, tako sem jaz razumela, da je grozno in bodo videli. Je grozno, a ne. S tem, da sta moja dva videla in noben ni nič komentiral, da je pa to grozno, ali pa da bi od strahu stran zbežala. No in potem je pa naslednji teden so pa druga skupina prišli in sem jaz pač povedala, da se bom malo umikala, ker sem pač imela tako izkušnjo. Pa so rekli "ne ne ne, to pa res ne!" In vem, da smo se šli skupaj kopati in so prišli ta mali, tam od 3 do enih 10 let, ena četica osmih ali kaj vem koliko otrok. So tako pogledali, "kaj pa ti to imaš?" In sem jim tako, primerno njihovi starosti povedala. "Aha, a takole so ti naredili!" In vsak je malo pogledal in če je koga kaj zanimalo, je vprašal in je šel. In takrat sem se jaz od otrok to naučila, da je to pač stvar v glavi.

I: ja otroci, so...

R: tako, zelo sporočilni. Zelo iskreni.

I: in niso še tako obremenjeni s temi...

R: normami, ja. Tako da to mi je bila ena taka šola in potem še tista nudistična plaža, mislim, ta kamp. Tako da potem tista misel na rekonstrukcijo se je skos bolj izplavljala. In dejansko sem potem čez nekaj mesecev ugotovila, da sem pa čisto v redu taka, kakršna sem. Tudi mož nikoli ni dajal nekih signalov, da pa nisem več ženska ali kar koli. Tudi videla sem, da sem še vedno zapeljiva, saj sem protezo nosila. Sem bila zanimiva za moške in tako. Sem občutila.

I: se pravi je bilo bolj tako, da ste morali vi v glavi razčistiti z enimi zadevami...

R: ja, ja, ja...

I: ... in se pri sebi sprijazniti, da tako rečem...

R: ... ja, ja, ja... Da sem še vedno ženska. Ena taka šola mi je tudi bila, ravno v tem kampu. Pač, tiste prikolice, ki smo bili, smo bili eni in isti vedno skupaj. In je bila tam tudi ena gospa, in je rekla "jaz imam pa svojo rodno sestro, ki dela na plastiki, te bom jaz tja peljala, zaradi rekonstrukcije." Ker takrat sem bila jaz še zelo v tem, da bom rekonstrukcijo šla narediti. In potem sva šli tja čez cel kamp k tisti gospe in se ji približujeva, in pravi ta gospa "joj, a ni škoda tega trebuha!" In sem si mislila "ma ta je malo prforana, kaj zdej trebuh pomeni!" Saj jaz sem vedela, da iz trebuha vzamejo reženj, ampak nisem si pa predstavljala, da je to tako grda brazgotina potem ostane. Ker to je dejansko...

I: in potem je namesto brazgotina zgoraj je tukaj.

R: je tukaj, ja. Tudi na prsih je, seveda, saj ti morajo nekam prišiti.

I: a potem je v bistvu to samo zaradi izgleda.

R: seveda, da ne rabiš proteze nosit. Ampak tega ne veš, a ne. In ko si mlad, meni so vsi govorili "ja pejte rekonstrukcijo narediti, ste še tako mlada." Samo moj kirurg mi tega ni rekel. En starejši gospod je bil, ki se je potem upokojil. Jaz sem mu res neskončno hvaležna. Samo pogledal bi me pa bi tekla čez cesto takoj se menit. On je bil edini, ki je rekel "no saj boste videla." Ni rekel "pejte!"

I: kaj pa to so bile recimo predvsem ženske s tem obremenjene ali je bilo isto tudi pri moških?

R: kaj pa vem. Predvsem zbujaš neko pomilovanje zato, ker se ti je to zgodilo. Pri vseh, imam jaz občutek. Jaz sem v tistem kampu videla. Jaz sem potem neko samozavest dobila, no. In sem potem kar tako pokonci hodila in tako (smeh). In sem videla, da v bistvu so me pogledali, ampak da so me videli kot žensko. Celo. Ne kot da nekaj da mi manjka. Tudi oblačila sem se tako. Takrat vem, da so mi zelo barve pomagale. Takrat sem imela same neke kanarčkaste barve na sebi. Vem, da sem imela neko kanarčkasto rumeno minico, neko papagajsko modro tako popkarico (smeh). Tako se spomnim. Ampak saj to sem na nekem nezavednem nivoju. In se tako spomnim, ko sem hodila plavati, potem še septembra zaradi roke. Ker so mi bezgavke odstranili in sem morala roko razgibavati in vzdrževati. In sem šla v (name town1), tam (name coast), sem šla vsa ponosna v nekih visokih petah (smeh), polna sama sebe. In so bili tam eni trije dečki, tako sem si predstavljala, kakor da so kakšni body guardi na kakšnih disco vratih. (smeh) Lepotci, a ne (smeh). In je šel en za mano in mi je sledil. In sem si mislila "čaki, boš že videl!" (smeh) In sem šla na tiste skale tam, in on na druge skale. In sem se tako obrnila, ne vem, kako sem naredila (smeh), da nič ni videl. In sem se slekla. In on je skos tako malo sedel ene 5 m stran in je skos pogledoval. In jaz sem se malo spogledovala (smeh), ampak tako, da sem bila glih prav zakrita. In sem imela načrt: "če si ta prav dedec, te to ne bo ustrašilo." Ampak ga je. To je bila edina izkušnja taka. In jaz potem, še tako nekako sem lase imela, še daljše sem imela kot zdaj, tako da je bilo vse nekako prikrito. In potem se počasi začnem odpravljati v vodo. In me vidi in on tudi. In tik pred zdajci sem si pa jaz roke nekako dvignila, sploh ne vem, kaj sem naredila, in on je tisto zagledal (smeh). Pa ni grdo. Takrat sem tudi imela že lepo brazgotino. Samo ploh sem bila. In ga je samo odneslo v vodo in je odplaval potem. Tako da sem si mislila "kreten". (Smeh). To je bilo edino tako sporočilo. Ampak moram reči, da me ni prizadelo, da sem se zabavala. Še zdaj se zabavam, ko se na to spomnim. Drugače pa se mi zdi, da pač te sprejmejo. Ko sem bila v toplicah, je bila ena taka zanimiva izkušnja. Vsi so mislili, da sem neka športnica z neko poškodbo, ne. In potem so bili tam ena skupina in sem pač povedala. In v tisti skupini je bil tudi en 16letnik, en mulo, ki so ga med sabo sprejeli, z enim gospodom je bil, ki je bil zdajšnjih mojih let. Pa smo ga sabo vlačili popoldne, ko smo bili frej. In potem sem jim povedala, zakaj sem v toplicah. In se je zgodilo, da je enkrat zvečer je ta mulo potrkal na vrata v pižami, s povštrom pod roko (smeh).

I: to pa so prigode.

R: ja. "Kaj pa ti tukaj?" "Ja nič, k tebi sem spat prišel." "Kako k meni spat?" On je bil zraven, ko smo se to pogovarjali, ali sem še celo pokazala, saj ne vem, kako je bilo. In sem rekla "no evo." Kaj je mulc načrtoval, jaz ne vem. (smeh) Ampak, recimo.

I: in kaj je bilo potem?

R: ja nič, potem sem ga poslala spat nazaj, v njegovo sobo. K tistemu gospodu (smeh). Ne vem, kaj si je mislil, nisem raziskovala. Ampak to so mi bila ena taka sporočila, lej, saj si ženska. Saj si še vedno zanimiva, saj nisi nič drugačna. In tako.

I: ampak verjetno je bolj to, da v sebi najdeš moč?

R: ja. Jaz sem prav preko teh sporočil dobila, da nisem nič drugačna.

I: v bistvu so bili to neki vzvodi od zunaj?

R: od zunaj, ja.

I: ki so potem...

R: ja, ja. To zdaj vidim, saj takrat nisem. Takrat sem se kar ene dva meseca spogledovala, da bi šla narediti še rekonstrukcijo. Ampak potem sem skos taka sporočila: ja kaj pa ta trebuh, pa a ne otrocI: A tole so ti naredili. Ta mali mi je rekel, ko sem domov prišla "pokaži, kaj so ti naredili". Sem bila tako v zadregi, ali čem ali ne. "A če ti pa to ne bi odrezali, bi pa ti umrla?" Pa se nikoli o smrti nismo pogovarjali. Je bil 7 let star takrat. Tako, v bistvu sem videla, če si odprt pa če se o tem pogovarjaš, tudi ljudje potem postanejo odprti pa ti stopijo nasproti.

I: se pravi načeloma imate pozitivne izkušnje?

R: ja, čisto.

I: pa bi lahko naredili razliko med ljudmi, ki vas oziroma so vas dobro poznali, pa med tistimi čisto tujci?

R: ne, ne bi mogla. Meni se zdi, da sam sporočaš, da sam daješ neke signale in da potem te na podlagi tebe sprejmejo. To so moje izkušnje. Se mi zdi, da če sam, tako kot rečejo, gledaš s sončnimi očali, da tudi če te nekdo grdo pogleda, ga nekako ne vidiš, da te grdo gleda. To so moje izkušnje.

I: kaj pa tisto obdobje, kot ste razmišljali o rekonstrukciji, je bil pa razlog za to rekonstrukcijo kaj?

R: od bratranca žena je bila par let pred mano operirana, in njej so ponudili takoj. Da ji to naredijo. In je hkrati imela to operacijo. Jaz niti nisem videla, kako to izgleda, ampak samo videla neke hribčke, da ima lepo narejeno. In tudi potem, ko sem bila na temu, sem šla k njej in mi je pokazala. In je res lepo imela. Ona je imela take prsi, močne, mislim tako, afriške, zelo fajn stoječe in tako. Ni mi pa pokazala te brazgotine. O tem ni noben govoril, samo gor gledajo vsi, kako imaš fajn. Ona je sicer takrat rekla "ja, saj boli, ampak sicer to spada zraven". Ne vem. Tako da jaz sem se s tem spogledovala, da jaz bom tudi to naredila. "Če mi bodo to odstranili, mi bodo to naredili." Pa še vsi so mi govorili "ja, pa moraš to narediti", "ja pa boste šla to narediti". Tudi zdravniki, a ne. Samo to potegne cel kup stvari za sabo. Lahko. Ni nujno, a ne.

I: ampak v bistvu ta rekonstruirana dojka je samo kozmetična?

R: ja, čisto kozmetična. Čisto kozmetična je. Tudi če je premalo tkiva, dajo spodaj še tak vsadek. Umeten. Kot nek vložek, s fiziološko, ali silikonski.

I: tako kot povečanje prsi?

R: ja, ja, ja, ja. Tako da. Nič, jaz mislim, da je to za moškega, ki te od zadaj prime pa ima dve roki gor (smeh). Zdaj, koliko pa ti čutiš, pa jaz ne vem. Jaz mislim, prvič je povezano precej z bolečinami, jaz mislim, da. Od začetka, kar nekaj mesecev, jaz mislim, da te mora zelo boleti. Drugič pa senzibiliteta. Jaz ne vem, koliko je senzibilitete. Ker recimo, jaz sem zdaj, koliko? 14 let bo, pa se mi zdi, da še zdaj na določenih mestih ne čutim, tam okrog brazgotine, recimo. In tam so živčni končiči prekinjeni. Razen toliko pač, koliko je, da jim ni treba proteze, da ne mislijo, da jim bo ven padla ali kakor koli.

I: pa morda je tudi ta vidik celostnosti?

R: ja, cela, celostna. Ma kaj pa vem, no. Kakšne se odločijo zaradi otrok. Jaz sem zdaj imela sošolko svojo, skos sva bili sošolki, od male šole naprej do zadnje diplome. In je lansko leto zbolela in ima dve manjši punčki. Ta mala je bila lansko leto prvček. In so ji najprej delno odstranili, potem so pa odkrili čez en teden, da bi bilo pa pametno celo odstranit. In ona se je v tistem odločila za rekonstrukcijo. Njej so vzeli hrbtni reženj. Jaz sem ji sicer rekla, naj premisli pa naj mogoče kasneje se odloči. Imam občutek, da se je takrat odločila čisto zaradi punce ta starejše. Zdaj je osmi razred. Punčka, ki je zelo zahtevna sama do sebe v vseh pogledih. Kar se tiče učenja, lepote, oblačenja. Skratka, ena taka zelo perfekcionistka na vseh področjih. Pa ji tudi uspeva. In se mi zdi, da se je zaradi nje na nek način odločila. Njej so vzeli iz hrbtnega režnja tukaj, ampak ima težave z mišico. Ker nek manko imaš, nek defekt imaš. Tale del, pod lopatico. Kaj je to? Pleča.

I: a samo kožo?

R: ne, ne, komplet, tudi mišico. Saj mišico vzamejo.

I: a iz trebuha tudi mišico?

R: ja.

I: to je v bistvu potem polnilo?

R: ja. In tista, ki je malo več pri sebi, ti lažje vzamejo, tista, ki pa nič nima, ji pa ne morejo.

I: in kaj na splošno vi mislite o takšnih rekonstrukcijah?

R: ja, če se ne sprejme sama sebe. Ker kakšne se ne morejo pogledati. Potem vsekakor je to ena velika psihična opora in pomoč za spoprijemanje s tisto rehabilitacijo in samimi zdravljenjem in za sprejemanje samega sebe. Odvisno, koliko ti prsa pomenijo. Meni je enkrat rekel en znanec, "tebi več noge pomenijo."

I: za hodit?

R: pa noge kot lep del telesa.

I: se pravi kot erotično ženski del telesa?

R: ja, na nek način. Pa nikoli nisem tako razmišljala, ampak imam. Zdaj so se mi malo kolena deformirala, ampak načeloma imam lepe dolge noge, recimo. Jaz sem zelo veliko v minicah hodila, pa še zdaj si jih nataknem. In morda res, da bi bila bolj prizadeta, če bi se mi na nogah nekaj zgodilo. Ker se vidi, ali pa bi bolj v hlačah hodila. Dobro, saj ravno tako zakriješ kot tukaj zakriješ. Jaz mislim, ja, da tam, kjer se ne spoprime, kakšne se ne spoprimejo. Poznam eno gospo, ki je bila 29 let stara, ko je zbolela. Potem se je pa po ene 22 letih, bila je že čez 50 stara, je postala vdova, zelo taka močna gospa, s precej velikimi prsmi, da "zdaj imam pa dosti te proteze." Pa še kot natakarica je nekje delala. "Potem se pa sklanjam pa tista prteza skos nekaj ven leze, bom si pa šla rekonstrukcijo narediti." Se ji pa reženj ni prijel. Je pa propadlo vse skupaj. So ji pa odstranili od trebuha, naredili rekonstrukcijo in je vse skupaj šlo preč. Se je vnelo, se ni prijelo tkivo. Potem je še enkrat probala, so ji dali neko silikonsko, da so ji kožo raztegovali. Zdaj ne vem, kako se je potem končalo. Poznam tudi eno znanko, ki je učiteljica, pa se je tudi potem po ene 4 letih odločila za rekonstrukcijo. In pravi, da je zadovoljna. S ta malimi da dela in očitno je bila tako obremenjena na nek način s tem. Tako da sigurno, če ne moreš s tem živeti, mene nič ne moti. Jaz tudi otrokom, ko predavam dostikrat povem pač. Jaz nimam s tem problemov povedati pa podeliti.

I: ampak brez proteze pa?

R: grem. Ja, ja. Doma sem brez, za šport sem v glavnem brez. Tudi ko nesem smeti, v stolpnici iz 10. nadstropja, pa grem dostikrat brez, v liftu. S tem nimam. Tudi recimo imamo v (name town2) eno hiško majhno. In jaz se tam pod cerkvijo brez kopam. Nimam s tem problema.

I: ampak imate v glavi skos, ko ste brez, da "zdaj sem pa brez"?

R: ne.

I: pa "kdo me bo zdaj pogledal"?

R: ne, ne. Si mislim, "kar poglejte!" Kaj pa, če bi bila brez roke? Sem pa bila pozorna, kako so kakšni gledali, na teh oblečenih plažah.

I: na oblečenih plažah bolj gledajo, ne.

R: ja, ja. Tam pač skriješ tisto kar je (smeh).

I: kaj je zanimivo.

R: ja, ja. Ne, nimam s tem težav. Tudi en dokumentarec so predlani delali z mano za na RTV in sem tekla brez. Ker sem nekaj tekla, sem bila brez. (silence) Tako da. Zdaj sem imela spet en intervju in so dali noter ta posnetek. Ker takrat sem tekla cel regiment cajta (smeh).

I: tečete tudi?

R: letos sem se čisto ustavila zaradi (name son). Upočasnila čisto na telesnem nivoju, me je čisto ustavilo, pribilo na tla. Tako da letos nisem še nič tekla. Ne morem. Mi ne gre spod nog.

I: če je kakšna pavza daljša je verjetno že fizično težko začeti.

R: ne, saj imam vzdržljivost. Saj kaj, v soboto sem šla na Mojstranko in sem smučala z Mojstranke. Tisto vzdržljivost imam v sebi. In bi tudi lahko čisto počasi tekla, ampak nekako se ne morem spravit. Sicer sem že bolj hitra, bolj hitro hodim. Bila sem čisto upočasnjena, tudi hodit nisem mogla. Sem šla čisto počasi, kot ena stara mama.

I: se pozna na fizisu, ne.

R: ja, totalno. Res, si nisem predstavljala, da tako lahko to naredi. Tako smo šle recimo na kavo v službi, pa sem po par metrov zaostala zadaj. Pa so ženske, ki počasi hodijo, pa še vedno. Tako pri sebi nisem doživljala, sem bila čisto živahna.

I: moram reči, da hvala za pogovor.

R: upam, da se bo kaj dobilo ven.
(...)

I: kako pa si odkrila?

R: veš kako sem, čisto po trapariji. Jaz sem imela zdravstveno vzgojo v sistematskih pregledih. In smo imeli srednješolce in je enkrat prišla ena (name), s semenarja o raku na modih pri fantih. In je rekla, "veš kaj, ko bodo pa fantje prišli." Tretji letniki, ne, smo jim pripovedovali o spolno prenosljivih boleznih, "pa še malo omeni, naj si malo moda pregledujejo." Imeli so raka na modih na izobraževanju. Jaz pa potem, ne vem, kako sem dodala, naj pa še malo mame doma vprašajo, če si dojke pregledujejo pa če gredo h ginekologu (smeh). Saj mularija je popadala pod mize (smeh). In tako sem si potem jaz nekako, "če pa že to govorim, se bom pa še sama malo." In sem zatipala. Po trapariji. Res, da sem na tistem delu že imela ene tri leta prej eno tako kožno zadevo, ki sem se kar nekaj skos praskala. In so mi tisto odstranili potem in je bilo rečeno, da ni nič. Pač nek papilom je bil, neka nenevarna tvorba. Ampak potem tam zraven sem pa notri v globini zatipala, čez 3 leta.

Metadata

Other Topic categories:
CHILDHOOD / FAMILY LIFE / RELATIONSHIPS
IDENTITY
Key actors: 
myself, mother, partner, children
Tags:
family life, health, (giving) birth, body, death, disability, health, healthcare, healthcare providers, illness, physical strength, treatment/therapy, body image, plastic surgery, sexual identity
Female, 47 Slovenia

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