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My personal story

PrintDownload as PDF
Narrative
Country: Romania
Sex:
Female
Primary Topic:
IDENTITY
Year:
2000, 2010

R: (...) I got a job at this firm, where I sensed this type of disparity, because in the creation department there were two men. (...) It was a PR firm. I was organising events. I’ve noticed that in this PR area it is very femininely distributed. Women are in charge of weddings and christianings (laughs) somehow in this area...and it was our department, formed exclusively of women, and the creative department, formed exclusively of guys. And on one side they were the creative department, on the other these boys were very prankish (laughs), I mean they didn’t do their homework in time, there was a rather school-like attitude and only the girls were criticised, just like in school, because boys are boys. You just know they don’t do their homework, that they’re more fidgety, that they’re this and that...well these boys were riding the tricycle while I was trying to do press monitoring, once they started to shoot each other with blind pistols (laughs) while we were trying to slave on the event budget, on this and the other. It was very annoying that they were granted some things which normally wouldn’t have been granted to other employees, with the pretext that...you know, that’s how boys are!...except these boys were 30 something year old men, we weren’t in school anymore. And they afforded to mock you, to not grant you the respect which should have derived not from the fact that you were a woman and they were men, but from the fact that we were colleagues and we had to interact, to work on stuff together. But they would tell you off, like “oh come on, give me a break with this stuff, go away and let me play!” (...) I mean they would just idle away while we had all eyes on us, which was really annoying, because they were disturbing me, I was struggling with some hair-splitting task and I wasn’t in the mood for someone sneaking up on me with a pair of scissors pointed at my ear and to say “haha...what if I cut your hair!”... and all this time I was on the phone with a client...
(...)
(specifies that both bosses were women, ex-professors)

R: You know, boys are supposed to be naughtier and girls are supposed to be more quiet! And they got away with a lot, including the fact that they didn’t respect the deadline, that they could fight with the boss, to tell her „I don’t feel like doing this, I will say no and you can’t do anything about it!”, I mean they were pretty unreserved and demanding, and could just ignore it if they didn’t feel like doing it.
(...)

R: (...) It seems to me that when you are in an entourage without an even distribution, boys, because they are boys, can get away with a lot of things which only deepen the stereotype that boys are naughty and girls are behaving themselves, boys are irreverent and girls are compliant and this completely idiotic idea of masculinity was reproduced very accurately in the workplace.
(...)

I: It seems to me, from what you said, that employees were holding their jobs less in the PR department compared to the other one.

R: Yeah, I think so, also as a result of not having the freedom to do what you wanted. They were autonomous, they were partners, they could curse each other, fight, swear, you could hear 'fuck off' and things like that from their office. Never from ours, girls may not curse (...) They had this solution to cool off, while I was going insane on the inside (...). And it was precisely because there was this great pressure on us...
(...)

R: Consider how it would have looked to go tell on them, to go to the boss with „teacher, teacher, I told him to do the layout and he didn’t!”
(...)

R: (...) Because that was the idea that they were spreading insistantly, that our department is one of frustrated women. But our frustration didn’t stem from a sexual insatisfaction, as their speech implied.
(...)

R: They were separated, they were playing computer games, no one was going in, it was the only place where you could smoke. We were two smokers in the group and we were going out on the terrace to smoke. The boys were smoking in their office, in a much smaller room. And when the big boss would enter, she would say “haha, you boys, what cheap tobacco you’re smoking....haha....did you finish?”; “Yes, ma’am!” I mean they were all about “Yes ma’am!” with the boss, but with us...
(...)

R: (...) There is also the preconception that men don’t gossip. (laughs) To me it seems that it’s worse, or just as bad. As we had this very informal relation in this firm, I came across some extremely personal information about my boss, spread by these boys who were mocking her more or less failed sentimental life, which according to them explained some, in a way...how should I put this (...) they were always inserting details, gossip, on her personal dissatisfaction (...) I mean if you are unprofessional as a woman, it can only be because of a failure in your personal life, that’s it.
(...)

R: It is a pattern I heard numerous times. And not only in my case, but generally... “Let it go...her man left her, he’s cheating on her”... there’s always something about her and her man, it’s never “she’s just upset”, or she can have prementrual sindrom, she could have missed her...you know...
(...)

R: (...) it was funny that our clients were all men, followed by female-assistants, who seemed to be working more than they did, (...) it was always like that, man plus female-assistant, man plus female-assistant...and it seemed the women were working more, they had their feet on the ground, while the guys seemes a bit more inconsistent, like “ummm....yeah....the stuff you do,... what is it, knitting wedding baskets or whatever...” (...) this sort of arbitrary truth was never questioned, that we are supposed to pay more attention to details, that we are more organised, more hardworking.
(...)

R: Yeah, yeah, It’s this school pattern all over again (...) and it bothers me to see this sort of preconception reproduced at organisational level.
(...)

R: There have been opinions, somewhat justified, that our boss has a behaviour of abandoned woman. In the moment someone was leaving the job they had to invent a life-and-death excuse to justify their leaving. (...) And it only perpetuated this system that everything is personalized, that you didn’t just change a job with another job, but you were leaving a person (...).
(...)

R: (...) when a male boss makes a scandal, people conform and say „wow, what an authorian and involved boss he is” whereas when a woman says the same thing in the same context, the subtext is „she is PMS-ing”...this preconception that women cannot control their emotions or have more hormones than men...how can I put this....even these guys were crying one day and laughing the other without needing tampax.
(...)

R: (...) I think I became more masculine in my behaviour, so I could handle some problems. Even if some things bother you, you have to put up a front so you won’t get labeled as another unsatisfied woman.
(...)

R: (...) What are your options? The idea of telling on people is socially stigmatized since we were 4, isn’t it? You cannot be a sneak, which later evolved to being a good sport. Whenever I hear guys saying about a girl that she is cool, I have a preconception about that girl.
(...)

R: (...) I’ve never heard of girls working in the creative department. This should be interesting! I believe that a girl in a creative department would do the work of all the guys who would just be playing ping-pong over her head. And it shouldn't be that way. You see, this field seems masculine.
(...)

R: There seems to be less super-ego in men, or at least it’s less authoritative (in his theory, Freud suggests that there are 3 parts in people's mind: id, ego and super-ego. According to this model of the psyche, the id is the set of uncoordinated instinctual trends; the ego is the organised, realistic part; and the super-ego plays the critical and moralising role).

Romanian

...si asa, ajungem la un timp prezent, cand m-am angajat la aceasta firma, apropos, unde am resimtit oarecum genul asta de disparitate, pt ca in departamentul de creatie erau doi.

I: Ce fel de firma era?

R: Era de PR. Eu faceam evenimentul. Am remarcat ca si in zona asta de PR e foarte feminin distribuita. Femeile se ocupa de nunti si botezuri,...(Rade) ... cumva in zona asta, si era departamentul nostru, care era format exclusiv din femei, si departamentul de creatie care era format exclusiv din tipi. Si in virtutea faptului ca, pe de o parte era departamentul de creatie, pe de alta parte baietii aia erau foarte zgubilitici asa, adica (rade) nu-si faceau temele la timp, era o atitudine destul de scolareasca in care numai fetele erau certate, exact ca in scoala, ca baietii, asa-s baietii. Stii ca nu-si fac temele, ca-s mai zvapaiati, ca-s nu stiu cum si nu stiu cum, ei, si baietii astia se plimbau cu trotineta in timp ce eu incercam sa fac monitorizari, incepusera sa se impuste cu pistoale cu bile, (rade) in timp ce noi incercam sa salahorim acolo la bugetul evenimentului, la una, la alta. Si era foarte enervant ca li se permiteau niste lucruri care in mod normal nu li s-ar permite altor angajati, ca ii stii pe ei, asa-s baietii!, dar baietii astia erau babati de 30 si ceva de ani, adica nu mai eram la scoala, care isi permiteau sa te ia la misto, sa nu-ti acorde un respect care trebuia sa vina nu in virtutea faptului ca eu sunt femeie si tu esti barbat, ci in virtutea faptului ca suntem colegi, si ca trebuie sa interactionam si sa lucram impreuna ceva, dar te cam usuiau, „hai ma, lasa-ma cu astea, hai ma lasa-ma sa ma joc!”

I: sa fiu creativ

R: sa fiu creativ, adica ei frecau menta cumva, adica pe noi era biciul puternic si asta era foarte deranjant, pt ca pe mine ma deranjau, nu, ca eu incercam sa lucrez la niste chestii destul de chitibusare de facut, si nu vroiam sa-mi apara cineva cu o foarfeca la ureche, hahaha ce-ar fi sa te tund!

R: in timp ce eu sunt la telefon cu un client(rade). Si cand dispareau sefele, era interesant ca sefa era femeie, si sefa mare si sefa mica erau amandoua foste cadre universitare si de liceu, si se mentinuse cumva stereotipia aia a claselor, parca eram la clasa de uman again

R:(rade) doar stiti ca baietii trebuie sa fie mai nebuni si fetele trebuie sa fie mai cuminti! Si le se iertau foarte multe, inclusiv faptul ca nu respectau dead line-ul, ei puteau sa se certe cu sefa, sa-i spuna „eu n-am chef sa fac chestia asta, o sa spun nu si n-ai ce sa-mi faci!”, adica erau destul de expansivi si demanding, si puteau sa-si bage picioarele, daca nu vroiau. Nu ca nu le spunea nimeni nimic, putea sa le spuna, dar ei nu puteau fi admonestati, pur si simplu, pe cand la noi nu se putea, adica mereu erai certat de sefa ca n-ai facut, ca n-ai dres, adica era gratuit pana la urma, si are darul sa te indispuna asa ceva, adica cineva are dreptul sa traga chiulul si sa nu fie, nu stiu, reprimanded, daca vrei, si noi stateam si, hai, da-i si munceste!

I: Dar cum ti se pare ca-si negociau pozitia asta, spatiul de libertate pe care sefa nu se baga?

R: Cred ca aveau o pozitie privilegiata prin faptul ca departamentul de creatie era privilegiat, poate ca era mai greu sa gasesti oameni din creatie decat oameni care sa faca PR, adica chiar si neexperimentat, departamentul in sine avea un continut aparte, pe de alta parte nu acceptau, adica erau destul de submissive si cred ca stiau ca nu pot fi dati afara cumva, sau

I: Inlocuiti

R: Da, si cred ca profitau de lucrul asta foarte mult, mai degraba, nici nu pareau ca-si asuma riscuri, mi s-a parut cumva ca in cercul nostru lumea era timorata de admonestarile care ar putea sa vina, si erai cumva setat de a evita un conflict, nu vreau sa ma cert, nu vreau sa-ti contest autoritatea decat pe mess, intre noi, sa te injur un pic, pe cand baietii astia pareau mai dezinhibati, erau tot baieti din zona uman, nu stiu, imi pare rau ca ma refer total stereotipal la genul asta de schema, dar chiar si in scoala cand eram, baietii de la real si care erau mai multi, erau foarte cuminti, si nu se auzea musca, si ti-ai inchipui ca la 20 de baieti se aud „hahahahaieli” din astea si conflicte, la noi erau 5 baieti si 20 de fete si era o harmalaie de nedescris. Adica nu stiu, mi se pare cumva ca atunci cand esti intr-un cerc unde este paritatea asta total dezechilibrata, baietii, pt ca ei sunt baieti, isi permit tot felul de lucruri care trebuie sa adanceasca stereotipul, ca baietii sunt obraznici si fetele sunt cuminti, baietii sunt neascultatori si fetele sunt ascultatoare, si se exacerbau tot felul de idei de astea de masculinitate total cretina care era reprodusa foarte fidel in locul meu de munca.

I: Dar crezi c-o faceau cu ochii la un public, la publicul feminin...

R: Da, era demonstrativ, dar era si un pic.., uite ce-mi permit eu sa fac si tu nu poti sa-ti permiti, pentru ca tu nu ai..., nu stiu daca, tu nu ai curaj, ca nu-ti permiti sa spui ceea ce crezi, dar nu mi-e frica sa spun ceea ce cred, bineinteles asta se petrecea in momentul in care, mai ales cand pleca d-na diriginta, d-na diriginta era sefa noastra, poreclita in acest fel, pt ca, nu-i asa, se reproducea genul asta de schema sociala, cred ca, nu se bateau intre ei, veneau sa ne traga pe noi de cozi, eufemistic, simbolic vorbind, si cred ca, pur si smplu se impuneau in fata ta, era foarte greu sa-i potolesti, pt ca era si o diferenta de varsta intre noi si ei (noi eram un pic mai tinere), media era de 20 si un pic, ei aveau 30 si un pic. La un moment dat nu poti sa admonestezi ep cineva care este cu cel putin 10,ani mai mare decat tine, lucreaza de mai mult timp aici, nu stiu, lucruri de genul asta, dar era foarte greu, am avut o colega care a plecat dupa ce s-a certat cu ei. Lucru pe un proiect comun, si bineinteles ca ei gresisera ceva, nu stiu, o macheta, o chestie din asta, si s-au certat foarte tare cu ea si ea cu ei si finalul a fost ca ea a izbucnit in lacrimi, adica putea sa se ajunga pana la un nivel de stres maxim, care nu e..

I: Si pe care nu-l media nimeni dintre sefi?

R: Nu-l media nimeni dintre sefi pt ca seful dadea la cos genul asta de conflict, voi intre voi..., stim, stim, asa sunt ei, dar ei sunt asa mai.. originali. Ei erau de fapt foarte de treaba, numai sa nu fi lucrat cu ei pt ca in momentul ala se produceau niste discrepante. Faptul ca ei nu erau obisnuiti sa li se spuna ce sa faca. „bai, trebuie sa termini pana la ora H, pt ca trebuie sa predau unui client ” si atunci ramaneai.... mi s-a intamplat sa raman in plop pt ca cineva a auitat sa-mi faca niste ecusoane de care eu am avut nevoie. Am contat pe faptul ca am comunicat corect cu ei si ca lucrurile vor fi gata la un anumit moment si n-au fost, adica erau oameni mai silitori si mai putin silitori.

I: Diviziunea de gen se suprapunea perfect pe cele doua departamente?

R: Da.

I: Mi se pare din ce ai zis, ca oamenii stateau mai putin pe job-urile de la departamentul de PR decat dincolo?

R: da, cred ca, si in virtutea faptului ca nu puteai sa faci tot ceea ce vroiai tu. Ei erau si autonomi, adica erau doi, erau parteneri, se porcaiau intre ei, adica, cand unul gresea ceva celelalt il admonesta, se certau, se injurau, puteau sa se injure, numai la ei se auzea X,Y,Z, du-te!, baga!, scoate!, la noi niciodata, era un fel de... nu se putea, la noi fetele nu injura, era criminal de stereotipa reactia asta si acolo putea sa functioneze ca un plaman, ca un organism de defulare, ca eu ma enervam in gandul meu, si undeva la doi metri de mine, deci in alt departament, se auzea „lalalala”, nu stiu ce! Si tocmai pt faptul ca era o presiune foarte mare pe noi, cumva, proiectul in ansamblu avea o parte de creatie, dar nu exclusiv parte de creatie, astfel incat eram impinsi noi sa negociem cu ei, nu sefii, si gandeste-te cum ar fi sa-l parasti pe unu la sef ca „doamna, doamna, si i-am spus sa faca macheta, si nu mi-a facut!” ...era penibil sa faci asa ceva pt ca stiai ca nu sunt admonestati, si nici nu poti sa te duci s tragi pe cineva de maneca, „dar uitati ce face? Ca i-am spus sa faca asta!”

I: si cred ca exista si presiunea ata sa fiti de gasca, sa...

R: Da, oooo,

I: sa negociati in termenii lor glumeti!

R: Bineinteles! Pe mine m-a distrat f tare ca la un moment dat eu m-am inteles bine cu ei pt ca am avut un account care nu presupunea parte de creatie, decat un minim, ecusoane si prostii de astea, nu sa faci un afis sau alte lucruri din PR care necesita ca cineva sa stea sa migaleasca genul asta de obiect. La un moment dat m-am enervat destul de tare pe ei pt ca dura 100 de ani sa-ti faca ceva, te mai tineau de vorba, „dar tu ce mai faci? -Bai las, hai ca vorbim cu alta ocazie! Fa-mi asta, si dupa aia!” „Pai nu, nu stai, ca vreau sa-ti povestesc! ” Trebuia cumva sa si inghiti intr-un fel exhibarea parerilor lor, sau poate ca nu aveau cu cine vorbi acasa, nu stiu. Si te tineau o ora pt o chestie care dura 5 minute, si dupa aceea, dupa ce ti-o dadeau dupa 5 minute, era gresita, iar te duceai, era un joc, un paso-doble acolo. Intrai, iar iti spuneau, iar le ziceai, iar stateai o ora, si la un moment dat ii ziceai unuia dintre ei „bine, hai lasa-ma in pace, nu vrei s-o faci, hai lasa-ma in pace!” Dupa aia au fost un pic asa pe nepregatite de iesirea mea, oarecum nervoasa, si zic „hai ma, ce dracu te comporti si tu ca o femeie! (cu emfaza) (rade)!!!” Pentru ca asta erai, ideea popularizata de ei intr-un discurs repetitiv ca departamentul de la noi este un departament de frustrate. Dar frustrarea nu venea din faptul unei insatisfactii sexuale, asa cum se subintelegea din discursul lor

R:Exact, ci fix din cauza faptului ca noi eram mult mai tinute sub control, avand un sef, fiind departamentul un pic mai mare, eam vreo 5 oameni cred, sau 4 si cu un sef. Ei erau doar ei doi, intr-o camera separata

I: Erau un fel de bucatarie a..

R: Exact. Ei erau separati, jucau jocuri pe calculator, nu intra nimeni la ei, era singurul loc in care se putea fuma, eram doua fumatoare in grup si noi ieseam pe terasa. Baietii fumau la ei inauntru, intr-o camera mult mai mica. Si cand mai intra sefa mare „ha, ha , mai baieti, dar ce tutun ieftin fumati, hihi, ati facut alea? Da, sa traiti!”. Adica erau numai „da, sa traiti!” cu sefa, dar cu noi, noi fiind cumva pe picior de egalitate cu ei, trebuia sa suferim consecintele acestei...

I: Nu aveati autoritatea de care se bucura sefa!

R: Absolut de loc.

I: Si cu care sefa isi facea treaba cu ei,

R: Si-o facea, da intr-adevar, pt ca ea era patronul, ea ii platea. Era si o firma mica, si informal, pt ca daca era o politica de corporatie in care intrai la o ora, ieseai la o ora, bifai niste itemi si daca nu-i bifai era de rau, poate ca asta i-ar fi temperat un pic. Dar stiind ca lucrurile se puteau amana la nesfarsit, ca pot busi anumite lucruri fara sa li se taie din salariu sau sa aiba ei de suferit, ca de fiecare data, produsul finit, daca iesea prost, tot vina noastra era, cu toate ca era si partea de creatie, si nu puteai sa spuI: nu ma certa pe mine, ceart-l pe ala!, ca nu puteai sa faci chestia asta ca nu mai erai de gasca, dupa aia erau intepati si iti faceau ei zile fripte mult timp dupa.

I: crezi ca exista vreo legatura intre faptul ca de la voi lumea pleca, ramanea putin timp in organizatie, si faptul ca presiunea era mai mare, ca erati responsabile si pt ...

R: Cu siguranta. Pai firma asta, in mod recurent.... Anual avea un eveniment de organizat care se baza mai mult pe creatie, plus ca in final era o carte cu mai multe marci romanesti, in fine, si in momentul in care faceai asta, aveai nevoie de cineva care sa-ti faca macheta de displei pe produs. Ei, si a fost .. de fiecare data era nerve breaking, pe cine cadea magareata sa lucreze pe proiectul asta se intampla de fiecare data ca se gresea macheta, ei greseau tot felul de lucruri pt ca nu erau atenti, nefiind stimulati sa fie atenti in nici o ocazie, si era foarte amuzant ca atunci cand se enerva cineva de la noi, aia era o frustrata, ca du-te si te......, sau si nu te......, sau ce ma aia ...... iar cand se enervau ei pe ei sau intre ei, nu era nici o problema, si ei erau frustrati din anumite motive, dar la ei nu se mai punea problema in felul asta, adica niciodata nu se ducea cineva de la noi sa le spuna ca si ei sunt NF. Nu se putea asa ceva ca se lasa cu nasoale, te distrugeau, te innebuneau,

I: In interactiunile lor cu cele doua sefe, puneau vreodata problema in termenii astia, adica ai senzatia ca aveau aceeasi strategie cu sefa, dar un pic mai voalat, adica faceau aluzii la feminitatea ei, isi negociau pozitia si insula de libertate eventual flirtand sau flatandu-le?

R: Nu, mai degraba se abordau foarte profi, adica strict profesional, nu mai intervenea dimensiunea asta in momentul in care ei isi negociau anumite pozitii, devenea asexuata conversatia total, ca, dupa aceea, in spatele scenei iar parerea lor era aceeasi (suna telefonul...). Cred ca este un mecanism destul de pervers cand pozitia de conducere apartine unei femei, subordonatul este tip, mi se pare ca mereu o sa existe marja asta de... pe de o parte te comporti cu ea ca de la om la om, pt ca este seful meu si de fapt are resursele sa ma controleze, si in momentul in care eu am vreun interes strict profesional – economic, o tratez ca de la egal la egal, iar in culise o fac albie de porci, tot in virtutea acelorasi tipare, adica exista si prejudecata ca barbatii nu barfesc (rade). Mie mi se pare ca ca e mai rau, adica cel putin la fel de rau, nu stiu, noi avand o relatie foarte informala in firma aia, mie mi-au parvenit informatii extrem de personale despre sefa mea, via acesti baieti care faceau misto de viata ei sentimentala mai mult sau mai putin ratata, care explica anumite.., intr-un fel, cum sa spun, compatimeau cu noi daca pateam intr-adevar lucruri nasoale, daca existau conflicte majore fara miza, si asta le putea deranja foarte tare, ei intr-un fel, incecau sa-ti usureze povara, zicand:las-o ma ca ia... nu stiu ce, si mereu se inserau detalii, barfe, despre insatisfactia ei personala,

I: Care ii afecteaza profesionalismul

R: da, exact, adica nu poti sa fii neprofesionist atunci cand esti femeie, decat atunci cand esti nesatisfacuta in viata personala. Atat.

I: deci era o schema

R: Este o schema pe care am auzit-o de foarte multe ori. Si nu numai la mine, in general. Lasa ma ca asta .. nu stiu ce, ca a lasat-o barbatul, ca o inseala, e mereu ceva cu ea si cu barbatu-sau, every time, nu exista „poate ca e suparata pur si simplu”, nu , poate sa aiba sindrom premenstrual, poate sa nu se fi..., sa nu fi iesti bine, si atat.

I: si care era reactia fetelor cu care se barfea in liniile astea?

R: Intr-un fel se depresuriza, adica te gandeai „saraca, e o ratata!”, sau „ce nefericita este ea”. Se intra in hora asta, adica in fata dusmanului comun se putea coaliza toata lumea, dar in momentul in care tensiunea cobor intre noi, era fiecare pe felia lui si se subintelegea ca fiecare are probleme, indiferent de pozitia de autoritate sau nu,

I: Au existat momente in care vreuna dintre fete a sanctionat genul asta de glumite de complicitate exact din motivul asta?

R: Da, au existat momente in care se mai spunea de exemplu, cand se intra intr-o zona de glume destul de vulgare poate, sau daca se sarea calul, din partea lor catre cineva din grupul nostru, se mai echilibra grupul cand intervenea cineva si spunea „hai bai, lasa ca nu e chiar asa”, sau „termina, hei, hei ai sarit calul, nu mai este amuzant” sau asa, dar asta nu prea afecta, adica devenea ridicola persoana care incerca sa regleze situatia, ca dupa aceea se schimba tirul pe ea...aaaa, comentezi, pai stai asa ca nu-i nimic, vrei sa fii tu aparatorul poporului, dar era foarte frustrant pt ca era periodic „asa-s baietii!”

R: Nu ma intereseaza ca asa-s baieti, pana una alta suntem cu totii angajatii firmei asteia, suntem o echipa sau ar trebui sa fim, si aici se termina povestea asta, dar nu, adica mi se pare ca s-a ingerat total si s-a internalizat fix mecanismul asta, ca la ei este dezordine, ca la ei se fumeaza, ca la ei se injura, ca la ei se joaca jocuri pe calculator, si la noi, adica in zona de ovare.. (rade)....toata lumea sta si munceste si noi mai pâş-pâş, mai comentam pe mess, nu verbalizam nimic, nu ne negociem. Iarasi o problema care venise in virtutea faptului ca ei lucrau de mai mult timp acolo, adica cred ca era unul dintre cei mai vechi in firma respectiva, si isi cunosteau hibele fiecaruia, dar daca stau sa ma gandesc, in momentul in care am ajuns acolo, adica din prima zi, din a doua zi, a existat o perioada in care sa fie o relatie rece, in sensul profesional, nu vai ce alienat ma simt, ca nu mi se da atentie si nu face nimeni glumite cu mine, se trecea direct in paine, si tu ce faci, nu stiu ce, bineinteles ca daca tu cu cine esti, adica se trecea fix in dimensiunea asta personala care era enervanta

I: Nu se negocia de loc formalul

R: Adica tu trebuia sa fii..., adica intrai direct in....Si erai destul de pus la perete, prin faptul ca numite glume (cel putin mie mi s-a parut), sareau calul, si ntrau intr-o zona, nu minata, dar totusi care nu e relevanta in discutia noastra profesionala pana la urma, ca nu vreau a ma trag de sireturi cu tine neaparat. Nu stiu, ei poate ca faceau eforturi sa fie o socializare din asta acuta, de-a dreptul (rade),

I: (rade) Un fel de team building.

R: Da, un team building fortat, de 9 ore zilnice, si asta a fost cu munca. Asta a fost intr-adevar un moment care m-a agasat, si cred ca este si prejudecata asta ca era atat de amuzant ca bine-inteles clientii pe care ii aveam erau barbati, urmati de asistente, asistente care pareau a munci mai mult decat ei, asta era impresia, ele stiau mai multe decat ei, normal, angajatul stie mai mult decat seful despre activitatea firmei, dar era care se o chestie care se reproducea in permanenta, barbat plus asistenta, barbat plus asistenta, si am lucrat si cu clienti straini si tot in genul asta, adica nu exista niciodata..., si parea ca tipele munceau mai mult, erau mai ancorate, tipii erau un pic mai inconsecventi, aaa, da,da,da, dar voi ce faceti, aaaaa, impletiti acolo la cosuletul de nunta sau ce faceti voi acolo, va respectam ca sunteti profesionisti, dar totusi o sa faceti cum vrem noi, se impunea cumva genul asta de...., si mi s-a parut ca se si complaceau cumva, nu se contesta niciodata genul asta de adevarat arbitrar, da, e normal ca noi suntem mai atente la detalii, mai organizate, pe scurt mai sarguincioase. Era ideea asta preconceputa ca tu sa stii mai mult decat el.

I: adica sa-ti fi facut temele.

R: Exact, exact, nu faptul ca el era client neaparat, cat ....

I: De asta nu mi se pare intamplator, dar poate e doar parerea mea, faptul ca cele doua persoane care au murit de epuizare la munca sunt doua femei.

R: da, da, da. Cumva am senzatia ca se reproduce modelul asta scolaresc. Nu stiu, poate ca tu, pt ca ai facut realul ai o optica oarecum diferita, dar la noi, chiar si in perioada de 5-8, se trecea cu vederea mai usor iesirea de pe sine a baietilor fata de fete. Am avut si fete mai asa zis obraznice, si era tot asa „dar tu esti fata, ce te-a apucat sa faci sa sari gardul sau mai stiu eu ce alta acivitate exclusiv masculinape vremea aia!” Si ma deranjeaza sa vad ca genul asta de prejudecata exista la nivelul organizatiilor, mai ales informale, presupun ca intr-o corporatie esti un pic mai putin,... nu stiu, poate....

I: Poti sa raportezi, sau ai legat vreodata experienta ta de munca de ce stii de la parintii tai, de la femeile din generatia parintilor nostri, crezi ca s-a schimbat intr-ul fel raportul de forte?

R: Cred ca nu sunt un exmplu relevant, pt ca parintii mei amandoi sunt pe picior de egalitate, amandoi sunt doctori, au fost sefi de sectie, au avut pozitii egale si ca statut social. Oricum ideea ca, cel putin in trecut, ca doctorii sunt dati la colt zilnic, dar nu am avut sa simt ceea ce, de exemplu mama mea sau ceea ce sunt alte rude ale mele, ideea ca, ca femeie esti tratata un pic mai prost decat daca esti barbat, mai degraba tot in limbaj, ca un chirurg adevarat trebuie sa injure dar o d-na doctor nu trebuie sa injure. Mai este si aceasta chestie, dar in principiu nu am avut exemple, cel putin in cercul defamilie, de faptul ca”uite, mama mea a muncit mai mult, dar a fost recompensata mai putin ” sau poate ca si din cauza asta m-a socat cumva genul asta de sexism daca vrei - e mult spus - mai tarziu, pt ca am avut ca model parental doi oameni realizati profesional, nu foarte angrenati in mecanisme de ceea ce inseamna o familie traditionala, adica ambii mei parinti au fost divortati inainte sa se casatoreasca, si nu au fost subjugati de nici un fel de norma pseudoreligioasa, astfel incat n-as putea spune „uite ce greu e!”. Pe de alta parte, nu stiu cine imi povestea, ca stia despre un cuplu de profesori de liceu amandoi, si el a ajuns sa fie director, ea nu a ajuns sa fie director, desi amandoi munceau la fel de mult sau ea un pic mai mult decat el, si nu a ajuns intr-o pozitie de conducere, desi a depus oarecum mai mult efort, daca vrei. Nu stiu cat la suta este generat de definitii de gen si cat la suta e definita si politica, in scoli se politizeaza, din ce partid e, ala e directorul, nu mai stiu daca merge!

I: In ce conditii ai plecat de la job?

R: In conditiile unei surmenari intelectuale, nu, la un moment dat mi s-a parut ca plata nu mai concorda cu nr. de ore depuse, bineinteles iarasi o plecare foarte putin formala, „dar de ce?, mai ramai!” ideea asta de a da socoteala, si ajungi sa extinzi ca incep sa-mi doresc un sef barbat, care sa nu ma intrebe „de ce pleci, dar nu te simti bine la noi?” Da, dar ce, m-a luat ca pe o chiftea, ca un fel de consiliere psifologica, parea ca nu e ceva in regula mintal cu mine ca vroiam sa plec dintr-un mediu atat de prielnic si de..., luasem ca o familie mare si foarte disfunctionala, ca nu vreau, eu am familia mea, n-am nevoie sa ma simt ca acasa la job. Oamenii au mai plecat din firma asta, si s-a vehiculat in mod normal cumva, si nu in mod gratuit, ca exista un comportament de femeie parasita a sefei noastre. In momentul in care cineva pleca de la acest job, trebuia sa inventeze, ceea ce am facut si eu oarecum, sa inventeze o scuza de viata si de moarte, capa si spada, ca sa justifice renuntarea la un job. Eu am stat acolo jumatate de an, n-am stat 10 ani ca sa spuna ca „vai, extraordinar, cum poti sa faci! ” , dar de ce? de ce? de ce?, doua saptamani m-au intrebat zilnic, de ce?, sigur, te-ai hotarat? Sigur? Dar nu te-ai razgandit? Si se ramanea la ideea ca totul este personalizat, adica nu schimbai o slujba pe alta slujba ci paraseai o persoana, cu care nu aveai decat relatii strict profesionale, si nici atat cateodata, si se ajungea la niste lucruri destul de urate cred, pana la urma vreau sa plec si punct, nu trebuie sa-ti explic.
Acum psihologia de femeie parasita se aplica din pacate femeilor acelora, care se simteau „ca nu ma vrei!” pur si simplu asta era discursul care se vehicula, bine, se ajungea si la lacrimi, nu cu ocazia plecarii mele, dar cu ocazia plecarii altor persoane s-a ajuns la hahaha... femei emotionale! Prea multe emotii!

I: (rade) Cum au comentat tipii de la creatie cand te hotarasesi sa pleci?

R: Nu era pt prima oara cand cineva claca. Asa, cand se ajungea la lucruri din astea pe care le considerau ei cu adevarat importante, se dadea cu niste mistocareli vagi „haha, ce faci, te duci sa-ti iei salariu mai mare, nu mai poti, nu-ti mai place de d-na diriginta!” ma rog, se ajungea la lucruri de genul asta, dar in principiu se intristau, ei se intristau ca pleaca lumea, aveau emotii si ei, a fost destul de supporting, nu s-a.. nici contrariati, hihihi, cam destul de intelegatori, pt ca bineinteles exista din perspectiva lor un fel de compatimire, ca voi sunteti la departamentul ala horror, ca nu e prima oara cand se intampla asta, ca ti-am spus, ca ne atunci cand ne cam frecau pe noi mai tare si se ajungea si la niste lucruri urate, ei erau destul de... sa te sustina emotional, „da ma, asa e asta!”, cum ti-am mai spus. Este foarte neplacut asa cu statut dublu, comic cumva, cu doua situatii similare si cu doua reactii opuse, cand un sef de sex masculin vine si face panarama, oamenii se conformeaza si spun ca „mama, ce sef autoritar si implicat este”, cand o femeie zice exact acelasi lucru si exact in acelasi context, subtextul este... she is PMS-ing... sau ceva, adica prejudecata asta ca, cumva, femeile nu-si pot controla emotiile sau teoretic au mai multi hormoni decat barbatii, sau niste lucruri din astea care , cum sa-ti spun... si baietii astia aveau o zi rad, o zi plang, fara sa aiba neaparat nevoie de tampax si atunci nu mai poti sa relationezi, ca nu poti sa-i spui, bai, esti hait, s-a intamplat ceva, nu poti! Cumva era foarte neplacut ca ma intrebam cateodata ca adca era o paritate diferita daca erau 5 in loc de 2 sau 6, sa fim 5 la 5 sau 6 la 6, ma gandesc ca poate lucrurile ar fi fost altfel, poate ca nu s-ar fi creat aceasta discrepanta, dar cred ca eu m-am raportat, m-am masculinizat in atitudine, astfel ca sa pot sa manageriez anumite probleme, desi pe interior te deranjeaza anumite lucruri, trebuie sa ridici anumite mingi la fileu ca sa nu ti se puna eticheta aia de femeie nesatisfacuta. Dar asta nu mi se pare ca, daca eu iti cer sa ma respecti, si sa ai o conversatie normala, in limitele bunului simt, sa spunem, nu inseamna ca am eu o problema sau ca sunt nesatisfacuta, inseamna ca vreau sa ne comportam ca doi adulti poate, nu trebuie sa fii poate..., la locul asta de munca se batea foarte mult moneda pe ce e aia o femeie, ce e ala un barbat si de ce barbatii trebuie sa fie intr-un anumit fel, mi se parea ca si internalizasera o eticheta, poate ca erau mai sensibilosi. Dar nu s-a..., n-am vazut....
(...)

R: Ce poti sa faci? Este foarte nasol. Ai senzatia ca esti legat de maini si de picioare si ca omul ala nu va fi admonestat in nici un fel, ca nu sunt instrumentele necesare, sau nu este mediul in care sa poti sa.... Ce optiuni ai? Ideea de pâră este oricum stigmatizata social inca de cand eram de 4 ani , nu? (rade)

R: Nu poti sa fii un paracios, ceea ce a evoluat mai tarziu la a fi de gasca. Eu cand aud .... spunandu-se... daca baietii spun despre o fata ca e de gasca, am o prejudecata

I: (rade) E ceva in neregula cu fata asa!

R: Asta cu „de gasca” nu stim ce poate sa insemne. De obicei nu inseamna lucruri bune. Cand una este intepata s-ar putea sa fie mai bine, ca are ea motive sa fie intepata. Cam pe aici! Asta e, poate ca mi-as dori o slujba mai formala si in care sa nu fim ca o mare familie, hai sa fim ca un stup, ok, esti rotita aia, poate ca asta e mai relaxant, ca este singura doleanta pe care o am apropos de acest job, pt ca daca lucrurile se mentin intr-un standard destul de coerent,

I: Era mai putin loc de negociere, de...

R: Da, si nu se intorcea proiectul de fiecare data pe toate partile, nici sefele astea nu erau foarte mana de fier, erau destul de laxe, ca, vorba aia: ii ai cum ii educi! Daca vrei (rade)...Asa i-ai crescut, asa ii ai! Eu nu cred sa fi fost in vreo pozitie de conducere, cred ca angajatii mei sa poata sa munceasca in echipa, sa nu se ajunga la niste lucruri urate, nu stiu, ideea de barbat care tipa la o femeie mie nu-mi place nici la mine acasa, da pai nu vreau sa aud la munca ce n-am auzit la mine acasa. Nu am modelul unui tata care e capul familiei si pune mana pe masa si mama care gateste si face curat dupa el, sau (rade)...Si cu atat mai putin cu cat, de bine de rau, suntem in aceeasi oala, si asta e, dar nu, nu s-a putut. Da, e mult, asta m-a surprins, ca poate o fi un flagel al departamentului de creatie, ca stii ce ma surprinde? Ca n-am auzit de tipe care sa lucreze la creatie. Asta ar fi inteesant. Eu cred ca o tipa intr-un departament de creatie ar face treaba tuturor (rade) baietilor, care joaca ping-pong peste capul ei. E ciudat ca n-ar trebui. Vezi ca, pare masculinizat domeniul asta.
(...)

R: (rade): exact, exact, sau ca pe ei nu-i intereseaza, oricm ii trece, mai putin superego la baieti, se pare, adica mai putin autoritativ... Da... cam asta a fost...

Metadata

Other Topic categories:
CHILDHOOD / FAMILY LIFE / RELATIONSHIPS
EDUCATION
PROFESSIONAL CAREER
SOCIETAL CONTEXT
VIOLENCE
Key actors: 
myself, employer, boss, colleague
Tags:
upbringing, different treatment, (not) questioning/(no) doubts, behaviour, femininity, masculinity, privacy, role model, sexual identity, weak(-ness), competences, labour conditions, leadership, occupation/job, sexism, abuse
Female, 24 Romania

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